tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1372543555119802725.post716196949395363224..comments2022-12-02T00:36:37.243-05:00Comments on Connecticut Wetlands Law: Fundamental fairness and orderly agency meetingsJanet P. Brookshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02115855738959544965noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1372543555119802725.post-75380842543839580322010-10-12T18:25:49.302-04:002010-10-12T18:25:49.302-04:00I've been following your thoughtful discussion...I've been following your thoughtful discussion of Robert Fromer's removal with interest. I served on the Windsor Conservation Commission (which is decoupled from Inland Wetlands and has no regulatory power) several years ago, when Bob had just moved to Windsor. His belligerence, long-windedness, obsessive legalism, and anti-human philosophy were apparent then, and when he attempted to join the commission, we took the unusual step of quietly letting the Democratic party know that we didn't know how we could work with him and that we would prefer he not be recommended. How he eventually got onto the IWWC I have no idea, but the appointment process for town boards and commissions usually consists of the parties recruiting people to fill the massive number of vacancies, with scarcely any vetting.<br /><br />But I do not believe Bob's toxic personality amounts to "willful neglect of a public duty or a callous disregard for moral principles." I have to think that, once the Town Council failed in its due diligence, there should have been ways to fence Fromer in, short of calling in the police, as you suggest.<br /><br />On the commission side, there is no law or rule that says a commissioner has to be allowed to blather on indefinitely and harangue applicants, other members, and staff without restraint. A commission may adopt its own rules of order, so long as they are consistent with the Freedom of Information Act and any relevant ordinances. For example, the commission could have adopted a standing rule saying that a commissioner may speak no more than three times while debating any particular application, for no more than five minutes at a time (simply an example - so long as the limits are reasonable and can gain the support of a majority on the commission, they are enforceable). Robert's Rules include clear and enforceable guidelines for decorum and civility. And during hearings, a firm chairman can interrupt any commissioner whose "questions" are not actual questions, and require him to skip the editorializing and get to the actual question - if there is one.<br /><br />The town employee side is more challenging. I think that if this removal is to survive a court challenge, it is because Fromer created such a hostile work environment for Cyd Groff, who I have known as a passionate, committed public servant. But protecting staff from a toxic commissioner is a huge challenge. Every member of the public has a right of access to government, and an Inland Wetlands commissioner should be able to talk to and get information from the Wetlands Agent. But, with a supportive Town Manager and the cooperation of a majority of the Commission, boundaries can be drawn that limit the duration and nature of contacts with staff. It's sad that it would have to come to that, but perhaps it might have been a better outcome than $30,000 and counting in legal fees.<br /><br />In fairness, I don't live in Windsor anymore, and don't know what steps the commission and staff attempted before bringing Bob up for removal. It could be they tried everything I mentioned and more, and removal was truly a last resort.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks again for covering this experience in such detail and helping other local commissions to learn from it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01878539821275084420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1372543555119802725.post-74243942167820167402010-10-12T18:25:16.867-04:002010-10-12T18:25:16.867-04:00I've been following your thoughtful discussion...I've been following your thoughtful discussion of Robert Fromer's removal with interest. I served on the Windsor Conservation Commission (which is decoupled from Inland Wetlands and has no regulatory power) several years ago, when Bob had just moved to Windsor. His belligerence, long-windedness, obsessive legalism, and anti-human philosophy were apparent then, and when he attempted to join the commission, we took the unusual step of quietly letting the Democratic party know that we didn't know how we could work with him and that we would prefer he not be recommended. How he eventually got onto the IWWC I have no idea, but the appointment process for town boards and commissions usually consists of the parties recruiting people to fill the massive number of vacancies, with scarcely any vetting.<br /><br />But I do not believe Bob's toxic personality amounts to "willful neglect of a public duty or a callous disregard for moral principles." I have to think that, once the Town Council failed in its due diligence, there should have been ways to fence Fromer in, short of calling in the police, as you suggest.<br /><br />On the commission side, there is no law or rule that says a commissioner has to be allowed to blather on indefinitely and harangue applicants, other members, and staff without restraint. A commission may adopt its own rules of order, so long as they are consistent with the Freedom of Information Act and any relevant ordinances. For example, the commission could have adopted a standing rule saying that a commissioner may speak no more than three times while debating any particular application, for no more than five minutes at a time (simply an example - so long as the limits are reasonable and can gain the support of a majority on the commission, they are enforceable). Robert's Rules include clear and enforceable guidelines for decorum and civility. And during hearings, a firm chairman can interrupt any commissioner whose "questions" are not actual questions, and require him to skip the editorializing and get to the actual question - if there is one.<br /><br />The town employee side is more challenging. I think that if this removal is to survive a court challenge, it is because Fromer created such a hostile work environment for Cyd Groff, who I have known as a passionate, committed public servant. But protecting staff from a toxic commissioner is a huge challenge. Every member of the public has a right of access to government, and an Inland Wetlands commissioner should be able to talk to and get information from the Wetlands Agent. But, with a supportive Town Manager and the cooperation of a majority of the Commission, boundaries can be drawn that limit the duration and nature of contacts with staff. It's sad that it would have to come to that, but perhaps it might have been a better outcome than $30,000 and counting in legal fees.<br /><br />In fairness, I don't live in Windsor anymore, and don't know what steps the commission and staff attempted before bringing Bob up for removal. It could be they tried everything I mentioned and more, and removal was truly a last resort.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks again for covering this experience in such detail and helping other local commissions to learn from it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01878539821275084420noreply@blogger.com